How to balance promotional efforts between PODs?

[tuffkitty]

Hello all... I haven't posted a while or worked on my store for a while either but I gotta get going!

I have a question that I hope some of you might address. I have a store here plus a store selling the same designs at CP. Since my CP store was started much earlier than my Printfection store it is much more successful. But I've become convinced that the quality of Printfection's product is much better and I would prefer to have most of my customers buy from here.

But I don't want to just outright close my other store since it is the main source of sales. The vast majority of my advertising links point to my CP store. I have a domain name www.tuffkitty.com as my home page that points to my CP store...etc.

How can I promote my Printfection store without losing CP customers? Or is that even possible? Is there a way to effectively balance marketing efforts to both and hopefully gradually transfer my existing traffic and customers to Printfection?

Thanks

[Pussycat]

Hi Tuff Kitty,
I´m in the same position as you - three shops at CP (gonna close two of them, move the products and leave the most succesful open - at least until next summer as it´s paid up until then). I opened several shops here in March.

I also have a domain, which used to point to my CP shops. I have revamped that, and now it points mostly to PF. Apart from our original art products like posters, prints, cards and calendars, mugs etc which I can´t sell here yet, so I have links to those products sold at CP.
The difference between us is that I got bored with uploading the same old designs after finishing one shop, and made mostly new ones for the rest here, so there´s no mirrored shops.

I must say I do see my future here - I only leave the CP side open for the $$$:). And with all the glitches over there I don´t have much incentive to do any work on the store atm.

My shops here have since last month drawn even with CP salewise, in fact the visitors here are mostly more than I get for the other shop (PF is more SEO friendly ...)

So in short - as long as the shop on CP pays it´s own "rent" I´ll leave it open - but I´m concentrating my time and effort on my shops here. I haven´t done a lot there since March, and the stuff still sells.

PS: I have always loved your stuff, I´m sure you´ll do very well here!

[tuffkitty]

Thanks Pussycat... maybe I need to take a look at just how many of my CP sales come from the marketplace vs through links to my mainpage domain. If enough of the sales are coming from the marketplace then maybe I could afford to point my mainpage domain to Printfection and sort of split the difference. Or maybe some of my advertising could point to specific types of items on CP like mugs and cards etc...things that Printfection do not yet carry. Right now most of my advertising just points to my main page as sort of a catch all.
BTY I like the characters you have on your website as "models". They have a look reminiceint of "Second Life" characters. Were they made there? If so I didn't know you could "save" characters you create in Second Life for use on the outside. They look cool.

Kim

[PatrioticTees.com]

Hi kitty...

So glad to see you here... yeah, you haven't posted in awhile.

I also sell the same designs here and there. I have AmericasTees.com which points to one of my shops there, and PatrioticTees.com that points to here. The designs aren't exactly the same, but many of them overlap.

You are not really in a position to do that, since tuffkitty is your brand. Your domain really needs to stay as it is. I think you should point your domain here. I actually get more natural search engine hits, from Google, Yahoo, MSN and AOL than I get from the other domain (but that could also be because my content here freshens more often, since I work on this shop so much more). Also, I would think that the cp/tuffkitty domain is the one that's indexed anyway, so you should leave the shop open, and I think you'd still get search engine visits. THat's just my opinion. And you shouldn't do it until you feel you have ample product set up in the PF store.

I don't know how much art you sell, but you at least need to keep the other shop for prints and cards. I would imagine, prints and cards sell well for you. But for others, those items may be less important.

Better get crackin before Christmas!:D

[PatrioticTees.com]

Well how bout that.
When that happen? Hurray! I feel so important!

[Pussycat]

BTY I like the characters you have on your website as "models". They have a look reminiceint of "Second Life" characters. Were they made there? If so I didn't know you could "save" characters you create in Second Life for use on the outside. They look cool.
Kim

Thanks, Kim - I made the characters myself as I wanted some "models" for the tees. I customised tees to look like the ones we can sell here. I haven´t got the possibility to buy and photograph my stuff, thiught that´was the next best thing :)

[Pussycat]

Well how bout that.
When that happen? Hurray! I feel so important!

Welcome to the club :D;)

[tuffkitty]

Yep I definately gotta get crackin! You're right Patriotic.. I do need to get more designs uploaded first. I sure wish there was some sort of "import" option. It just takes so long to do each item, sizing, pricing etc all one at a time. Or am I missing something? Is there an import products or sections option somewhere and I'm just missing it?

[Goat-to-It]

How about Tufferkitty here.?
Or TuffKitty2?
You'd have to grab another domain to point t it but it helps keep your
brand fresh..

??
Just a thought

OR Better yet..
TuffKitty.com one place and TuffKitty.net in another.. ???

[gp1628]

I did some looking into things for some shops I still consult on.

Looking at multiple purchases done by the same person seemed to make things much simpler. People tended to buy multiple mixed shirts but rarely mixed shirts with other items. Some multiple purchases involved things like stickers with pins.

The end conclusion was that you can usually split a web site invisably between PF products and CP products. Send the shirt people to PF and the others to CP. The fact that they end up at different shops and different shopping carts would not effect many people. Giving the shops the same colors and themes tend to make it even more likely that a customer might not even notice or care.

Gandalf Parker

[PatrioticTees.com]

People tended to buy multiple mixed shirts but rarely mixed shirts with other items

I find this to be true too. And in real world retail, it's the same. People generally have a destination when they are shopping. It's nice to be able to offer, what I call impulse items, in our shops, and sometimes they sell. But someone shopping for an art print, is not shopping for shirts. Someone shopping for apparel is just not shopping for a clock or mug. That's part of the reason I am not really that interested in PF expanding out their product line too much. I think part of CPs problem is that they are trying to be all things to all people. I just think that it's a poor business plan. Why would it be wrong for PF to be considered an apparel business? When you go to a real apparel business, like GAP.. there are things there like bags and hats, there are impulse things like sunglasses and... even mints at the register. But they are still an apparel business. You don't go to the gap to buy a stuffed animal, or a watch. Sometimes they have them there, and if you are there already for jeans, you may think it's cute and buy one, but it doesnt mean Gap is gonna change it's business plan and start a toy section, or run a jewelry store. You have to be known for something, that's what gets you off the ground, there has to be a BASE, a thing that you get famous for, a thing you grow the business on. If you go into starbucks, it's a coffee business. They have expanded and offer food, and some novelty items, but all in all, it's a coffee business. It's a place where people come together and gather, talk, have coffee and and a muffin. And the products they offer are centered around that theme. There's nothing wrong with a little novelty. I just think PF should consider very carefully which direction they want to take the business in.. instead of just starting to offer every single thing that you can slap a print on.

That's why I sometimes get a little snippy when people come in here, or there for that matter, and request off the wall things like water bottles and other obscure items. Or when people complain about the lack of diversity of products. I think we should keep our minds open. But I think the image that PF has is very important. The company's image isn't really developed yet, so PF has to be really careful as they build their business into a MEGA business. I guess I'm just saying we don't have to offer something JUST because it's available. I think there should be a reason to offer it... it being available to print on, just isn't a good enough reason for me. And PF offering a product, just because another POD has it... is certainly not a good reason. Let them become famous for selling personalized yard signs, and let PF become famous for selling t-shirts... fine with me.

And Tuffkitty,

My name is Stephanie, just so you know. I don't really use it here, mostly because in the beginning I was afraid spies would ... see me... over here. But I don't worry about that anymore. I have come to terms with the fact that I have products here, and products there. They have been very good to me. Just because I am unhappy with some aspects about how they run their business, doesn't change that they have been very good to me, and kind, and fair. I felt guilty in the beginning about coming here, but I don't anymore. Business is business. And I am sure they would drop me like a rock too, if I stopped bringing in money for them, or if I did something that damaged their business somehow.

As far as the process being slow, yeah... you're not missing anything. Just try and find little ways to make the process faster for yourself, like formulate a system for which products you add, and how much you mark them up. Make it so you become like a robot. Also... I know when you create a new design, when any of us do... we're just so excited about it, and so excited about getting it out there... but honestly, just concentrate on your "ole reliables " for now. YOu know what your money makers are. Just get those up first. You also know which shirt styles are your money makers. Get those out there first. Just because you have a design that is newer, doesn't mean that it's better... you just think it's better because it's fresh to you... but to someone who's never seen your stuff before, it's all fresh! PF is working on, what I know, will be a great storebuilder. I love that they think things through before acting. In the end, doing it this way, will bring us better reward... PF.. and us as individual shopkeepers. I personally don't want them jumping at the bit at every new thing. I want it all thought out and thought through, and tested first.

Keep working on your store, take it slow, but get it done. Your stuff is so wonderful. I'm such a big fan. You'll do great here, just like you did there. The solution you find for this pointing and branding... well just come up with something that will work for this Christmas, then after the holidays you can look at it again, and decide what you want to set up to do for the following year. By then you'll have a better idea... you'll have more personal experience here, and you'll have more advice from others that are doing the same thing you are.

:) ANyway, my long post has prevented you from completing 2 more sections. so... signing off now...

STeph

[tuffkitty]

Hmmm...lots of things to think about!
As far as a second domain, I had forgotten that I also had purchased "tuffkittydesigns.com". I bought that a long time ago and have always pointed it to my CP store as a sort of back up. But I could use that one to point to my Printfection store.

As far as multiple purchases go, except for one design in my store, it does seem to be true that customers buy just a shirt or mug or whatever they initially came looking for. The one design where that differs is the birthday designs (http://www.printfection.com/tuffkitty/50th-BIRTHDAY-CAT/_s_43823). It seems that quite often when someone buys a shirt with the birthday design, they also buy either a mug or a button of the same design. Because the items are birthday gifts I suppose.

So I'm not sure how I'd handle that. For shirts I'd rather send the person to PF because of the quality and choices available. But then I'd miss out on the additional sale of that mug or button.

I agree with you Stephanie about branding and PF and not offering an item for print just because they can. I'm glad that PF is taking things slow and working kinks out of things BEFORE they get released. It seems as though CP has made a habit of making changes in the way the stores function and then relying on shopkeeper complaints to find out whether it works or not. It's frustrating to constantly have to adjust my workflow to the newest change. Like the recent "change storewide prices" issue that you're probably familiar with. Eerrgh!

Anyway I'm sure looking forward to the improvements PF has in the works. Good luck to everyone with their Christmas sales!

[rossnroller]

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but my query is related to the general topic and is probably easily answered by the people who have been posting here.

Is it preferable to have your own website, hosted independently with your own .com domain name etc, than just to rely on your PF store for sales?

It seems that you, tuffkitty, and others who have contributed to this thread, do have your own websites that "point" to your PF store(s). I take it there are SEO advantages to this?

Would the general strategy be to set up your own website to feature your designs and products and have them linked to your PF store, so that when a prospective client clicks on one of the designs, they are taken to your PF store?

Is this what you guys mean by "pointing" to your PF store(s)?

Are there any general tips on promo strategies and how to go about SEO etc specifically for one's PF stores? I have looked through the Help section, but it seems very threadbare and basic.

Cheers
Ross

[grizzlebeans]

Hi Ross,

I think everybody's situation is probably a bit different. If you have time the ideal thing is to setup a seperate website with lots of information and content related to the topic of your store. This is what the search engines really love. You can do this and provide a link to your store.

Let's say you have a store that features designs about dogs. You can start a blog about your doggie on a seperate domain and provide a link to your store on your blog. Of course this is only one simple example.

For me, the main benefit of having a domain name match the name of your store is for ease of advertisement. It's much easier for people to remember short URLs. In some ways it seems like a bit of a waste in that you're only using it to "point" someone to Printfection but for many people it's a simple thing to setup unlike a whole seperate website.

Either way, the main thing to know about SEO is that it takes lots of TIME.

I think this has been discussed in a couple other threads. I'm sure others can shed some additional insight. Gandalf--where are you? :)

[rossnroller]

Thanks, Amanda. That makes things clearer.

Rather than just having a link to your PF store on your blog or website, though, why not feature descriptions/teasers and pics of all your designs/products on a website with a .com name the same as your PF store, and have all the design images on your website linked to the same designs on your PF store, so that the shopping cart is then only a click away? Multiple inbound links to your PF store would surely enhance your SEO, as well as leading your prospective clients to where they can purchase your wares featuring the design they clicked on. Or is this implicit in what you mean by "pointing" from your site to your PF store?

Cheers
Ross

[gp1628]

To me the advantage of an off PF webpage (doesnt have to be a domain altho $6 a year isnt much to spend on one) is that you are free of almost any restriction set by PF. No need to complain about lack of space for description, or not having a feature, or lack of control over the layout.

The internet site that I like to see is a fully featured theme-based site which has a shop as part of it. A link saying "shop with us" or "visit our store". Or even the full store laid out and only the click to buy goes to PF.

I feel that everyone would be better off if people didnt try to make their shop into a webpage. PF and us. Too many sites (many of us know a particular PoD for example) get bogged down trying to be all-featured website.

Just my own opinion of course.

[grizzlebeans]

Hey Ross,

For me, a website like the one you mentioned would seem just a bit redundant. Why go through all the work of putting together the text and images like you described when Printfection does it all for you already! A visitor can easily browse through your descriptions and designs in the storefront--doing it twice might get a bit confusing for them.

Plus from a SEO perspective a bunch of links from one website (that probably isn't getting much traffic yet either) probably won't mean so much. Search engines seem to like it better when multiple links come from multiple websites. The more popular and relevant the sites are linking to you--the better.

I recently started a blog about one of my favorite baseball players. On the sidebar I placed a little slideshow that features designs about guess who, the baseball player featured in the blog. When visitors click through to my store, they find those designs as well as others they might be interested in.

To me, my time is better spent making the blog better with relevant content. This will naturally increase the popularity of my blog (and hopefully my store) over time. If you basically have the same store in two different places, now you're working twice as hard to get the same amount of traffic to both.

I hope that makes sense somewhat :)

[rossnroller]

Thanks for your interesting and informative responses, Amanda and gp1628.

I guess most of my own-domain website "strategy" as descibed in my previous post is based on a popular notion that may well be a bit of a myth - that a website with its own domain name is easier to optimise for search engines, and that SEs tend to be lukewarm about URLs that are subdomains (like PF and CP stores, I mean...not sure if "sub-domain" is the correct terminology). Anyone got any thoughts on this?

Reading through both your comments, it seems to me they may apply most to theme-based stores. In your case, for example, Amanda, it would make sense to have a blog or website about cats and things to interest feline-inclined folk, which would link naturally to your PF store.

In my case, my designs might be broadly described thematically as ironic, iconoclastic, sometimes political, anti-materialist, anti-corporate...you have the idea. BUT, I don't really have a clearly delineated theme. I'm scratching my head a little trying to work out how any blog or website could work in with my PF store along the lines you're suggesting.

I do have some theme stores planned for the future, but I'm wondering - do you guys see broader-based stores as unlikely to be successful because of not having a clear theme? That has been suggested to me, but I did a careful examination of the Top100 CP stores and found that many of them were general in their design content.

The ones rated towards the top tended to offer an enormous variety of designs and products...and I mean enormous, as in many hundreds or even thousands of designs and items. I was also surprised that the general quality of design didn't seem so special. For instance, your comical cat designs, Amanda, are far superior to a lot of the stuff I came across, both in terms of artistic quality and wit. And I saw nothing amongst the top rating CP stores to compare with the artistic quality of Hilly's (Kittycat, I think, is her nick) offerings.

Interested in your takes on the above observations.

[grizzlebeans]

You're bringing up some great questions and observations Ross. BTW--I can't take credit for tuffkitty's designs. I only wish I had that much natural artistic talent! Unfortunately I let the computer do the work most of the time. :o

Anyway, I sometimes compare my internet shopping experience with the way I shop in the "real world." For example, when I want something generic where do I go? Probably Wal-Mart or Meijer or Target or wherever. But where do I go when I want something unique? Maybe something a little higher-quality? Probably not to any of those places. I'll probably go shopping at some of the little shops in my downtown. I might pay a little extra for that something special but that's OK with me.

You're right--there's a lot of stores that do well with just a general theme. But who knows how long these places have been around (probably a long time) and how many people are working behind the scenes. They've obviously done something right. Not that Wal-Mart or any of these general stores are "bad" per se. They just probably do things differently than say you or me or your mom and pop store down the street.

I think it probably takes everybody some time to find out exactly how to tackle the Internet beast. Your question about the themed shop is a large reason why I'm transitioning over here to PF. Over at CP it costs $$$ to open a decent shop. As a result my one shop had multiple themes and after some time it just didn't make sense. Even to me. I had breast cancer awareness, pets, sports, computers, etc.

For example, someone interested in breast cancer awareness probably could care less about computer geek humor. They might look around my store and think, "Gee is this REALLY the right place for me?" In my opinion, having a theme-based just makes the visitor feel that more special and unique (and therefore more attached to you and your products).

As far as SEO goes--I think a theme-based shop probably would do better for the same reason as above. A spider crawling through my CP store is probably pretty confused about what its reading. Do breasts, baseball, dogs and computers really belong together?? Ack! :eek: Maybe on a good day!

Here at PF they let you open multiple shops which for *ME* makes life soooo much better. And for FREE! :) Personally, I find it easier and funner to create shops that are "theme-based" and visitors seem to like it too. Of course this is just my opinion. Others may have a different point of view depending on where they're coming from.

[Saga Shirts]

I guess most of my own-domain website "strategy" as descibed in my previous post is based on a popular notion that may well be a bit of a myth - that a website with its own domain name is easier to optimise for search engines...

There are a few reasons why having your own domain is a good thing, no matter if you're hosting your shop there or using it to link to your shop(s). You would probably have an easier time getting incoming links (which are important) in a domain of your own that has original content about your topic. It's pretty easy to get people to link to good free content, but more difficult to get inbound links to a commercial site that just sells stuff.

On your own domain you're also able to promote goods from more than one POD (or other source) without violating anybody's terms of service, which can happen in a POD's own shop pages. And if you decide to make some fundamental change in the way you do your business, you'll still have that domain - now beloved by search engines - to recycle, even if you've terminated your account at one POD or another.

But there's a really big reason that doesn't much matter at Printfection yet, but someday will matter a lot more.

Google is only going to show a couple of relevant links from the same domain for whatever search terms it's serving up. So while PF is still young - and while you have few competitors doing more or less what you do - you've got a really good chance at being one of the one or two shops that come up from PF in the search results. But as more and more shops appear here your odds are going to get worse. And since your PF shop is lumped in with every other result from PF then if you do slip, you just won't have a reliable presence at Google.

At your own domain you get to compete with everyone on the Internet without having to beat everyone at PF first. Remember that here, if your shop pages don't beat out everyone else's shop pages, you don't come up at all in the search results at Google. At your own domain you just need to worry about how high up your pages show. So in the long run you will do much better by promoting a domain of your own - and if your PF shop also does well, you've got two good shots at coming up high in search results.

I started making offsite shops about five years ago at another POD because their SEO wasn't very good. I knew that I could do much better. Here at PF, the SEO in shops is excellent and that's not really an issue. But like I said before, someday you will have a lot more competition for those one or two PF results that'll come up at Google and elsewhere. It'd be a good idea to have Plan B in place before that happens :).


and that SEs tend to be lukewarm about URLs that are subdomains (like PF and CP stores, I mean...not sure if "sub-domain" is the correct terminology). Anyone got any thoughts on this?

A subdomain would give you an address like yourshop.printfection.com, instead of www.printfection.com/yourshop (http://www.printfection.com/yourshop). Subdomains are great. They'd avoid the problem I described above - because each subdomain would get its own one or two results at Google.

It's possible that giving us all subdomains would present problems for PF. It'd be a great thing for the shopkeepers, though.

[rossnroller]

BTW--I can't take credit for tuffkitty's designs. I only wish I had that much natural artistic talent! Unfortunately I let the computer do the work most of the time. :o Too modest, Amanda! Your work comes from you, regardless of the tools you use to create it - yeah? I know what you mean, though. If I had to rely on hand-drawing ability, I wouldn't even be able to think about t-shirt design (currently, the only strength of my designs - and I hope prospective clients share this view! - is the thought behind them). Compared with some of the incredible art that I've seen on PF BB posters' stores in the last couple of weeks, since my PF life began, my stuff is kindergarten level!

I do think, though, that there's a place for designs that communicate things niche audiences empathise with, even if the accompanying graphics are basic. I see my stuff as a bit like the musical produce from the early days of punk rock, during which there was a massive move back to rock roots and the pure spirit of rock (the 2 minute pop song replacing excessive stadium anthems characterised by indulgent extended lead breaks and interminable drum solos, a reversion to simple arrangements, and a view that feel and attitude are more important than virtuosity). How's that for placing a favourable spin on basic graphics?! Not to say that great graphics are not a big plus for any design, of course. And real expertise with graphic art software. Believe me, I see some of the great work around here and weep...(figuratively speaking, of course).

Here at PF they let you open multiple shops which for *ME* makes life soooo much better. And for FREE! :) Personally, I find it easier and funner to create shops that are "theme-based" and visitors seem to like it too. Of course this is just my opinion. Makes a lot of sense.

Sagashirts, thanks for your illuminating comments. I've checked out your Saga Shirts site - tremendous the way you've seamlessly integrated it with your PF store. That's what I'd like to aspire to, once I've got my PF store looking ok and know the ropes a little more.

BTW, all your sites are brilliantly designed IMO. Again, as has happened more than a few times as I wander through the stores of the PF BB posters, I feel personally daunted coming across work like that. The good thing is, it raises the bar for those of us who are not up to such standards. :)

[Saga Shirts]

Sagashirts, thanks for your illuminating comments. I've checked out your Sagashirts site - tremendous the way you've seamlessly integrated it with your PF store. That's what I'd like to aspire to, once I've got my PF store looking ok and know the ropes a little more.

Saga Shirts existed before it became a PF store, so I just had to graft the on-site content to the new PF shop. Though I did redesign it at the same time. When it's possible, I'll host a version of the shop there too.

Having all those pages at the Saga Shirts domain helps me to attract more search engine traffic, as well as (I hope!) making the shop more interesting to visitors.

BTW, all your sites are brilliantly designed IMO.

Thanks!

[rossnroller]

Saga Shirts existed before it became a PF store Yeah, I do recall coming across your home page before - maybe a link on the T-shirt Forum? That HOT pic of the goth babe is indelibly etched on my memory!

[rossnroller]

You're bringing up some great questions and observations Ross. BTW--I can't take credit for tuffkitty's designs. I only wish I had that much natural artistic talent!

SORRY! Just realised, I was confusing you with Tuffkitty, Amanda - thought you were one and the same. I don't know how I came to that conclusion (erm, make that 'confusion'). DUH!